I agree. I heard something that made more sense, everything can be used as an opportunity to grow, if we take it. That I can't argue with. But there are just some things in this world that I cannot believe were 'meant' to happen.
Thinking on it now, seems to me to be an old saying meant to soothe dismay when something unfortunate happens and there is no reason to be found in what occurred. Balancing what is not reasonable with something that sounds reasonable makes some sense out of the unthinkable - puts order back where it seems to have disappeared. It's a human thing - attempts to make order out of chaos.
While we may or may not ever know the reason, I do believe there is one. That we ever have control over anything seems to be a total illusion to me, as I believe fate and destiny are pre-ordained long before we ever existed. The best we can do is try to comfort those in pain and help them to carry on.
My grandma used to say "G-d is not a vending machine". I agree more and more as time goes on. I don't look for something out there to answer my every wish to make my life right. I roll with whatever comes my way...or try hard to anyway and fail many, many times.
I think sometimes it is easy to lose faith in something bigger or lose faith in a sense that we are all here for a reason, a job to do...a journey to take....when things just don't make sense. Looking in the face of evil or just rolling with bad things is near impossible sometimes.
We reach out for answers, we want logic, we want things to make sense, we want fairness. We want good to win, we want evil punished. The bigger than us thing is supposed to take care of that, right? I say, wrong. Pray till you drop, seek answers wherever you want but in the end,we all need a way to deal with the reality of life: S*#t happens:)
It's all bullshit when you try to comfort someone whose child was just kidnapped and murdered or a refugee whose mother and sisters were raped and burned alive by soldiers. Try telling those people what the reason was. Imagine using it as a chance to grow. Words are easy. Reality, particularly that which is distant from our mostly mundane daily lives, is not. I'm hoping that karma and past and future lives figure in there somewhere but wouldn't hold out my last hope.
THIS is why my dad discouraged me from being a philosophy major. Some discourse is circular in nature and makes only for endless discussion. At a certain point, I think it wise to allow everyone the right to conduct their lives in a way that makes sense to them....no judgement. Perchance here that time has come with this discussion?
Odd as this may seem at this point in the commentary, but this memoir did not start off with such a heavy tone. I was frustrated with certain things/people in my life, but no one had been burned alive.
SISTERPOET: Yes, ALLOFUS are 'here for a reason' and I believe that, YES, everything happens for a reason. Each of us has the power of decision. Reader: The power of decision is your own! 'Right' decisions will produce 'right' outcomes, and vice-versa. This is where we have control and responsibility for each decision we make every second of the day. To eat that whole box of chocolates. To leave a disco at midnight with a stranger you just met. To take off on an unknown journey...decisions, reasons....
I just learned about Shenpa, from Pema Chodron, a Buddhist nun who really talks non-nonsense about what you just said... If you happen to google this term, you might find something useful. My 5 cents, plus a {{{hug}}}
Can someone field dhani's question in a " matter of fact" /well informed way? Dhani, short answer: it is a matter of religion that would prompt one to use g-d.
I cannot decide whether or not to leave the disco, sisterpoet, so I am probably not the person to ask. And to think it's almost midnight and here I am with this stranger.
Believe, if you are there with a stranger and the stranger isn't you, be responsible in your risk taking, if you decide to leave...snap a photo, take a license number and message your friends list;-)
On a lighter note for “everything has a reason”...sometimes you can’t find the “open window” until the moment you won’t fling yourself out of it.
There was a time when I had become resolved with the past and briefly (years) accepted that “everything happens for a reason”. Every experience had brought me to the wonderful moment I was in, giving me so much to give back, it was almost too good to believe.
There was an even briefer time (less than a year) when I stopped waiting for some type of tragedy to strike and accepted my love, success and happiness.
Something happened that tested my faith in everything, except God (thankfully)
And yes these words are embarrassing...there was a moment when I considered taking my own life followed by years of fighting a depression I wasn’t even certain I wanted to let go of. There is a sad comfort and safety in sorrow especially when it comes so naturally. One day my daughter expressed that she regretted telling her secret and so the realization...there are no words that can be said to her that will make her understand she is not to blame, only my peace, happiness and peeling myself off the mat. So reasons will never be good enough but I’m willing to try to put them back to good use once again.
Adam Walsh, Polly Klaas and a disheartening endless list of missing children, those tragedies inspired great foundations I pray we someday have no need of. We can learn lessons and make changes in the hearts of humanity from the atrocities of history and news but we seem to be slow learners.
many of the things that happen to us are a result of human choices and free will and greed, others like natural disasters or health problems are different.Spiritual beliefs are often formed or broken in times of testing where we don't have all the answers. For me personally my Christian faith has sustained me through both bad and good times in this life and assures me of something far better beyond it. It would be an unwise person who would sit down with someone hurting and say the everything happens stuff...but unfortunately well-meaning people do. experienced a bit of that when my son was diagnosed with autism - it takes a long time to come to terms with difficult life situations but some of the best in humanity comes with the worst in life.
@ Dhani From what I understand of the Jewish faith it is considered improper to write the name of G-d in full in areas where it could be defaced or easily discarded so the hyphenated spelling is used as a sign of respect.
A SOLITARY 'agreed!' on that last remark...(Regarding 'GOD', thanX for the clarification KHARIS, but it appears to be another foolish human thought -that writing God's name in full could somehow OFFEND the Creator (ha ha ha)....)
Yes believe, I wonder also.....if there is a plan, can I f it up? Get in the way of fate or destinty? Or is something bigger always going to swoop in as needed to set my ship a sailing to the proper shore? Hmmmmmm
I took a Smith sabbatical, I'm on my phone and I haven't read most of these comments, so I'm sorry if I repeat someone's thought. Believe, it's the explanation my Orthodox priest and the Orthodox church give. As far as control goes, for me, it is the not having it that is so hard to handle. Not that I need to always have a grip on control but when things happen that are decidedly out of it, it has been hard for me. Everything happens for a reason? It's comforting to relinquish control? I don't know, not for me.
(True story, happened in the 80s in a famous Mexican resort city. A woman walks down the street and an air conditioner drops on her head from four stories, killing her instantly. So what's the REASON? Why was this lady in 'the wrong place at the wrong time'? Brutus, please tell us: Was it her fault or the stars' fault? Please, these commentators are ITCHING to know....)
What I will say is that sometimes what happens to us affects others in ways we never realize. And bad things don't need to define or destroy us. And if we choose to, we can take anything and everything that comes our way and grow from it. But just because we can make something good out of something bad doesn't mean it should have happened. I believe in pre-ordination, paths being led to intersect, but we're not puppets in some cruel supernatural show where we don't understand why we are made to suffer because we just haven't got to the next tantalizing chapter penned without any input from the characters. Le sigh, I am ranting and it's too much of a pain to edit on my phone. So there, and stuff. Coffee!
Also, I know people whose families were raped and murdered, who were born with HIV positive before they even had a chance. Good friends of my family adopted three children from Africa. My cousin was adopted from China, the only way her parents could let her live. My friend who is a missionary in England helped a woman get asylum because if she returned to her husband she would be killed for becoming a Christian. But all of these people have become stronger for their experiences - they have used them to grow, despite how horrible, evil and sad the circumstances. Unspeakable things happen and there's no reason at all why they should - no greater power benefits from our suffering. But to overcome these things is not impossible.
Also.... I have noticed that the same thing can happen to people and one will wail and moan " why me, what is the reason this is happening" whereas the other puts it in perspective and moves on. Now of course this does not apply to extremes!!!!! No one can move on so easily after rape, murder, horrible offenses to mankind but for the most part those that find a way to stop asking why and start asking what next, tend to grow and learn and not get stuck spinning wheels.
I am very impressed with the thoughts expressed here -some serious thinking on a serious subject! Wench is right on: 'no greater power benefits from our suffering'...
Perhaps, in the cliche "everything happens for a reason," reason is defined incorrectly, because of a spelling error. Perhaps it is not "everything happens for a reason," (1) reason: [noun] basis or cause, explanation, but instead is "everything happens for reason," (2) reason [verb] to think, argue, make conclusions that determine belief or action.
these six words leapt out from the sermon I heard in church this morning. Thanks Pastor Jodi. (I attend a Baptist church which has two lady ministers on the pastoral team.)We can live with peace and joy no matter...
Comments
Loon says,
because i said so.....accidentaltourist says,
Not always a good reason. I share your sentiment.jene2008 says,
It our way of learning to deal with the ins and outs of life. If it is out of our control it makes some of us feel better.Wench says,
I agree. I heard something that made more sense, everything can be used as an opportunity to grow, if we take it. That I can't argue with. But there are just some things in this world that I cannot believe were 'meant' to happen.Steve__Anthony says,
I've always have a hard time wrapping myself around this belief, too.Then again. Maybe "The reason" - is another way of calling it random bullshit.
Believe says,
Funny that you mention control, Jene.EnMasse says,
Thinking on it now, seems to me to be an old saying meant to soothe dismay when something unfortunate happens and there is no reason to be found in what occurred. Balancing what is not reasonable with something that sounds reasonable makes some sense out of the unthinkable - puts order back where it seems to have disappeared. It's a human thing - attempts to make order out of chaos.notjustagirlintheworld says,
to quote the reverend mother "when G-d closes a door, somewhere he opens a window"Believe says,
It's finding that window that is the challenging part.notjustagirlintheworld says,
indeed, sometimes it is small and very far awayaccidentaltourist says,
An excellent discussion. Maintaining control is a fairytale ending we tell ourselves when the dark overwhelms.notjustagirlintheworld says,
we only control ourselves and our reactions but that can be powerful stuff.Believe says,
Accidental, I think that may be truer than I want it to be.sisterpoet says,
I still believe this to be true....everything does happen for a reason, if I didn't beleicd that, my life would be bullshit.Believe says,
Sisterpoet, I'm not there yet. May never be.sisterpoet says,
I do like the idea that these things happen for a reason BUT without using them as a chance to grow as wench says, the things are useless to you.Believe says,
Wench, was the individual you semi-quoted green? Now that I re-read it, it sounds like it could be from the song For Good, from Wicked.lovelylizard says,
While we may or may not ever know the reason, I do believe there is one. That we ever have control over anything seems to be a total illusion to me, as I believe fate and destiny are pre-ordained long before we ever existed. The best we can do is try to comfort those in pain and help them to carry on.DynamicDbytheC says,
Sometimes the reason is just plain evil or bad. That is when I call it BS. Still trying to find that window in my brick bunker.sisterpoet says,
My grandma used to say "G-d is not a vending machine". I agree more and more as time goes on. I don't look for something out there to answer my every wish to make my life right. I roll with whatever comes my way...or try hard to anyway and fail many, many times.I think sometimes it is easy to lose faith in something bigger or lose faith in a sense that we are all here for a reason, a job to do...a journey to take....when things just don't make sense. Looking in the face of evil or just rolling with bad things is near impossible sometimes.
We reach out for answers, we want logic, we want things to make sense, we want fairness. We want good to win, we want evil punished. The bigger than us thing is supposed to take care of that, right? I say, wrong. Pray till you drop, seek answers wherever you want but in the end,we all need a way to deal with the reality of life: S*#t happens:)
L2L3 says,
It's all bullshit when you try to comfort someone whose child was just kidnapped and murdered or a refugee whose mother and sisters were raped and burned alive by soldiers. Try telling those people what the reason was. Imagine using it as a chance to grow. Words are easy. Reality, particularly that which is distant from our mostly mundane daily lives, is not. I'm hoping that karma and past and future lives figure in there somewhere but wouldn't hold out my last hope.sisterpoet says,
THIS is why my dad discouraged me from being a philosophy major. Some discourse is circular in nature and makes only for endless discussion. At a certain point, I think it wise to allow everyone the right to conduct their lives in a way that makes sense to them....no judgement. Perchance here that time has come with this discussion?Believe says,
Odd as this may seem at this point in the commentary, but this memoir did not start off with such a heavy tone. I was frustrated with certain things/people in my life, but no one had been burned alive.Dhani says,
(Abstruse commentary:) Is the word 'God' now a dirty word, that we have to write it as 'G-d'? As in 'F--k'? (Signed 'Don't get it!')Dhani says,
SISTERPOET: Yes, ALLOFUS are 'here for a reason' and I believe that, YES, everything happens for a reason. Each of us has the power of decision. Reader: The power of decision is your own! 'Right' decisions will produce 'right' outcomes, and vice-versa. This is where we have control and responsibility for each decision we make every second of the day. To eat that whole box of chocolates. To leave a disco at midnight with a stranger you just met. To take off on an unknown journey...decisions, reasons....Amapola says,
I just learned about Shenpa, from Pema Chodron, a Buddhist nun who really talks non-nonsense about what you just said... If you happen to google this term, you might find something useful. My 5 cents, plus a {{{hug}}}sisterpoet says,
Can someone field dhani's question in a " matter of fact" /well informed way? Dhani, short answer: it is a matter of religion that would prompt one to use g-d.kismolnarzs says,
I can relate ro this one..Believe says,
I cannot decide whether or not to leave the disco, sisterpoet, so I am probably not the person to ask. And to think it's almost midnight and here I am with this stranger.ba_miracle says,
Believe, if you are there with a stranger and the stranger isn't you, be responsible in your risk taking, if you decide to leave...snap a photo, take a license number and message your friends list;-)ba_miracle says,
Disclosure: long, blabby and written poorlyOn a lighter note for “everything has a reason”...sometimes you can’t find the “open window” until the moment you won’t fling yourself out of it.
There was a time when I had become resolved with the past and briefly (years) accepted that “everything happens for a reason”. Every experience had brought me to the wonderful moment I was in, giving me so much to give back, it was almost too good to believe.
There was an even briefer time (less than a year) when I stopped waiting for some type of tragedy to strike and accepted my love, success and happiness.
Something happened that tested my faith in everything, except God (thankfully)
And yes these words are embarrassing...there was a moment when I considered taking my own life followed by years of fighting a depression I wasn’t even certain I wanted to let go of. There is a sad comfort and safety in sorrow especially when it comes so naturally. One day my daughter expressed that she regretted telling her secret and so the realization...there are no words that can be said to her that will make her understand she is not to blame, only my peace, happiness and peeling myself off the mat. So reasons will never be good enough but I’m willing to try to put them back to good use once again.
Adam Walsh, Polly Klaas and a disheartening endless list of missing children, those tragedies inspired great foundations I pray we someday have no need of. We can learn lessons and make changes in the hearts of humanity from the atrocities of history and news but we seem to be slow learners.
KharisJo says,
many of the things that happen to us are a result of human choices and free will and greed, others like natural disasters or health problems are different.Spiritual beliefs are often formed or broken in times of testing where we don't have all the answers. For me personally my Christian faith has sustained me through both bad and good times in this life and assures me of something far better beyond it. It would be an unwise person who would sit down with someone hurting and say the everything happens stuff...but unfortunately well-meaning people do. experienced a bit of that when my son was diagnosed with autism - it takes a long time to come to terms with difficult life situations but some of the best in humanity comes with the worst in life.@ Dhani From what I understand of the Jewish faith it is considered improper to write the name of G-d in full in areas where it could be defaced or easily discarded so the hyphenated spelling is used as a sign of respect.
Believe says,
We all realize I wasn't at a disco, right?!?!sisterpoet says,
Are there still discos around? I'm always up for a hustleAQScott says,
Cover me...I'm leavin' the disco...we were meant to be...Loon said so.SolitaryMan says,
Everything happens for a reason; sometimes that reason is stupidity and our bad decisions.Dhani says,
A SOLITARY 'agreed!' on that last remark...(Regarding 'GOD', thanX for the clarification KHARIS, but it appears to be another foolish human thought -that writing God's name in full could somehow OFFEND the Creator (ha ha ha)....)ba_miracle says,
yes I realize there is no disco...although I wouldn't mind the shiny disco balls, maybe in the bathroom for effect.Believe says,
I generally understand cause and effect. I'm looking for reason, as in a point, as in cosmic plan.sisterpoet says,
Yes believe, I wonder also.....if there is a plan, can I f it up? Get in the way of fate or destinty? Or is something bigger always going to swoop in as needed to set my ship a sailing to the proper shore? HmmmmmmWench says,
I took a Smith sabbatical, I'm on my phone and I haven't read most of these comments, so I'm sorry if I repeat someone's thought. Believe, it's the explanation my Orthodox priest and the Orthodox church give. As far as control goes, for me, it is the not having it that is so hard to handle. Not that I need to always have a grip on control but when things happen that are decidedly out of it, it has been hard for me. Everything happens for a reason? It's comforting to relinquish control? I don't know, not for me.Dhani says,
(True story, happened in the 80s in a famous Mexican resort city. A woman walks down the street and an air conditioner drops on her head from four stories, killing her instantly. So what's the REASON? Why was this lady in 'the wrong place at the wrong time'? Brutus, please tell us: Was it her fault or the stars' fault? Please, these commentators are ITCHING to know....)Wench says,
What I will say is that sometimes what happens to us affects others in ways we never realize. And bad things don't need to define or destroy us. And if we choose to, we can take anything and everything that comes our way and grow from it. But just because we can make something good out of something bad doesn't mean it should have happened. I believe in pre-ordination, paths being led to intersect, but we're not puppets in some cruel supernatural show where we don't understand why we are made to suffer because we just haven't got to the next tantalizing chapter penned without any input from the characters. Le sigh, I am ranting and it's too much of a pain to edit on my phone. So there, and stuff. Coffee!Wench says,
Also, I know people whose families were raped and murdered, who were born with HIV positive before they even had a chance. Good friends of my family adopted three children from Africa. My cousin was adopted from China, the only way her parents could let her live. My friend who is a missionary in England helped a woman get asylum because if she returned to her husband she would be killed for becoming a Christian. But all of these people have become stronger for their experiences - they have used them to grow, despite how horrible, evil and sad the circumstances. Unspeakable things happen and there's no reason at all why they should - no greater power benefits from our suffering. But to overcome these things is not impossible.sisterpoet says,
Also.... I have noticed that the same thing can happen to people and one will wail and moan " why me, what is the reason this is happening" whereas the other puts it in perspective and moves on. Now of course this does not apply to extremes!!!!! No one can move on so easily after rape, murder, horrible offenses to mankind but for the most part those that find a way to stop asking why and start asking what next, tend to grow and learn and not get stuck spinning wheels.Dhani says,
I am very impressed with the thoughts expressed here -some serious thinking on a serious subject! Wench is right on: 'no greater power benefits from our suffering'...lillybrook says,
Perhaps, in the cliche "everything happens for a reason," reason is defined incorrectly, because of a spelling error. Perhaps it is not "everything happens for a reason," (1) reason: [noun] basis or cause, explanation, but instead is "everything happens for reason," (2) reason [verb] to think, argue, make conclusions that determine belief or action.And that, I think, is far above Bullshit.
Dhani says,
'reason' = 'purpose'Screaming_for_innocence says,
For I have returned to SixwordsThis is true, continue on my friend, Godspeed