And in turn, I can feel free to say what I think when someone chooses to post such an insensitive remark in a public place. Freedom of speech works in both directions. Please deal with that as well. And if you think that not being allowed to say what uou think is worse than cancer then you've perhaps lived a very short time.
You've done a comparison study? Are you speaking of leprosy? Muscular dystrophy? Parkinsons? Oh wait, maybe you are speaking of teen angst? There is a cure for that: grow the hell up.
What do you mean? That the imminence of cancer sometimes prevents people from really making peace or saying what they need to? The fear of an unresolved death? In some ways, I also think that's worse than cancer. I watched my grandmother's body be tortured by chemo and sickness and kept thinking, I'm going to run out of time. I think, for her, that hurt worse, too. Is this what you meant? I understand the point but you've got to be careful how you say things, a very dear member of this community has been sharing her battle with cancer here so we are all especially sensitive to this topic, in addition to our own personal experiences. A back story explaining what you mean might help clear this up.
Why would you say that? Backstory, please so we can understand.
A lot of rotten things have their own constellation of rotten aspects; hardly to be compared to each other. Those aspects are not so easily diminished to the person, friends, family and other loved ones involved.
All suffering is difficult - to put it in terms of 'better' or 'worse' is virtually impossible. A man once told me it's more tragic for a man to have prostate cancer than a woman to have breast cancer. How can anyone make statements like this? If cancer is not affecting you somehow, perhaps something else seems worse, fine. But it's impossible to categorise how much of a tragedy something is. A back story really would be great, because for all we know, the author has cancer and means this as a triumph. I don't think we should all be so quick to assume it's meant unkindly, but it is a little ambiguous right now, for sure.
Thank you all for taking the time to comment on my six words. It was meant to generate a discussion, as it has. My comment stands. For all you know, I could be dying of cancer. The assumption that I am young and have never suffered shows how completely the stereotype of "having/suffering from cancer" has completely permeated our culture. It appears in our culture that one is not allowed to express an experience differing from our "sacred cows" of disease; perhaps this is why the comment is so is difficult for some folk to receive.
You all have my thanks for proving my point...that if one has a "disease" one disappears as an individual and becomes that disease and loses all sense of individuality. One must express oneself as those who have had the disease before them have. It is the LAW in our culture
that cancer is the worst thing that can happen to you, but ask a mom who has lost her child in a car accident if cancer is the worst thing, and she may tell you differently. And it is not my decision to tell her she is suffering any more or any less than a "cancer" person. My place is to be present with her not to judge or assume. Please be aware that each and every person you meet is an individual, not representative of your own personal stereotype and certainly not their particular disease. There's a soul in there worthy of your respect and understanding.
Take the time to look at your own reactions to the word cancer.
I appreciate very much and thank you all for taking the time. You help clarify for me the inability of our culture to consider another perspective.
If you were only trying to start a discussion you wouldn't have felt the need to make your first comment in the manner you chose to. Back-pedaling is rarely effective. Absolutely nothing you've said covers the reality that regardless of anything else, this post was insensitive. Your response in memoirs reveals your true attitude. But carry on, just don't expect a lot of buying in.
I'm sorry, I think we may have misunderstood each other. I don't think anyone here believes that cancer replaces or consumes one's identity but does it force some special attention and personal reevaluation? Of course it does. You know what made seeing my grandmother get sick so difficult? She didn't want to acknowledge the big, fat elephant in the room. When I remember her, I don't remember cancer, I remember HER, but at the time, I think we all needed to be able to acknowledge that there was something terrible happening and we didn't know how to feel about it. And no one really got to. Perhaps the reason our society has such strong feelings about cancer is because of how often it KILLS people. In the individual days that pass with a disease, are there worse emotional struggles? My grandmother died in her sixties. My great-grandmother out-lived her by 5 years. If I had been old enough to ask, I am sure that to my great-grandmother, there was nothing as cruel as losing a child (two, actually) before she died at 92. Of course people think cancer consumes a person and takes over who they are. You don't lose your soul, clearly, but you can lose hair, energy, weight (or gain it), and eventually spend most of your time just getting through each day. That's what goes through someone's mind when they or someone they love is diagnosed. And although there are many things that cause pain and suffering, not all of which involve disease, I don't really understand how this memoir or its explanation benefits or uplifts anyone.
I don't think anyone's physical illness can be trivialized.
Mud I sort of understand your experiment to reveal that certain words can makes us group individuals together. But your experiment lacked ethos. The Dalai Lama once said, "Yearn to understand before yearning to be understood." I could rattle off plenty of cancer stories. My own MomMom (grandmother,) my hairdresser's thirteen year old daughter, or my friend's husband. Everyone has their own tragedy whether it be cancer, car accident, or what have you. Point is your memoir came off insensitive and a backstory could have avoided this confusion.
This should be obvious when you type on the internet but the interpretation of the context is left up to the reader. Next time when you try a sixing experiment please be more considerate of the readers.
My response was defensive. I will allow you that, but after reading your explanation, I still find this memoir to be offensive. And frankly, the explanation as well.
I have never had cancer. I do however have a pieced together diagnosis of an immune disorder. I spent some time in Cleveland, Ohio at the Cleveland Clinic, where I got disappointing answers to many questions. It was there that I was assigned a number. I became that number. They did not need to know my name. I was asked my number. I was referenced by my number. And I struggled to keep my identity. And at times I lost that struggle. To that degree, I recognize what you were trying to accomplish. By the time I left Cleveland, I had received a plate full of bad news, and absolutely no good news. But I felt like I had accomplished something because, although I was diagnosed with a yet untreatable illness, I had answers. I could acknowledge and deal with what was in front of me. Once again, to thT regard I can recognize what you were trying to accomplish. I had a disease, but at least I had answers.
Where I believe the divide lies is the word choice. You went with the shock value, achieved it, and then came off as saying we were practically pawns in your game. The usage of the terminology "sacred cows"? Are you kidding? Hopefully you can come to know this site as a supportive group of creative individuals. Like any group, we have our share of internal conflict, but we generally protect our own. And some of our own have cancer. And it is shaking the foundation of their world. And we will do anything to ease her burdens.
Far too much legitimacy given to such a tangled web. Not a cleverly disguised web either. Luckily, most people here are both tolerant and forgiving. Even forgiving of untruths. Hopefully the pieced together "explanation" was a result of some level of guilt or regret, as perhaps one might expect, given the circumstances. But then again, humanity all too often has as much of an air of hopelessness as it does renewal and hopefulness.
How do you compare pain? I watched someone die of AIDS and I have seen someone saved from cancer. They were both pretty bad..either could have ended differntly. Very confusing sixer I must say.
these six words leapt out from the sermon I heard in church this morning. Thanks Pastor Jodi. (I attend a Baptist church which has two lady ministers on the pastoral team.)We can live with peace and joy no matter...
Comments
L2L3 says,
Not if you or your loved one has cancer.mudandenlightenment says,
One worse thing than cancer is not being allowed to say what you think becase it will upset you or your loved one. Deal with it.L2L3 says,
And in turn, I can feel free to say what I think when someone chooses to post such an insensitive remark in a public place. Freedom of speech works in both directions. Please deal with that as well. And if you think that not being allowed to say what uou think is worse than cancer then you've perhaps lived a very short time.oopsalittle says,
umm - like chemo???Believe says,
You've done a comparison study? Are you speaking of leprosy? Muscular dystrophy? Parkinsons? Oh wait, maybe you are speaking of teen angst? There is a cure for that: grow the hell up.MrsPremise says,
Hurry up and fix this, Mud. This is a place for support and encouragement, not misplaced anger. Lots of forgiveness here.Wench says,
What do you mean? That the imminence of cancer sometimes prevents people from really making peace or saying what they need to? The fear of an unresolved death? In some ways, I also think that's worse than cancer. I watched my grandmother's body be tortured by chemo and sickness and kept thinking, I'm going to run out of time. I think, for her, that hurt worse, too. Is this what you meant? I understand the point but you've got to be careful how you say things, a very dear member of this community has been sharing her battle with cancer here so we are all especially sensitive to this topic, in addition to our own personal experiences. A back story explaining what you mean might help clear this up.L2L3 says,
I think the author's first comment is pretty telling.skyrocketjones says,
Why would you say that? Backstory, please so we can understand.A lot of rotten things have their own constellation of rotten aspects; hardly to be compared to each other. Those aspects are not so easily diminished to the person, friends, family and other loved ones involved.
Wench says,
All suffering is difficult - to put it in terms of 'better' or 'worse' is virtually impossible. A man once told me it's more tragic for a man to have prostate cancer than a woman to have breast cancer. How can anyone make statements like this? If cancer is not affecting you somehow, perhaps something else seems worse, fine. But it's impossible to categorise how much of a tragedy something is. A back story really would be great, because for all we know, the author has cancer and means this as a triumph. I don't think we should all be so quick to assume it's meant unkindly, but it is a little ambiguous right now, for sure.mudandenlightenment says,
Thank you all for taking the time to comment on my six words. It was meant to generate a discussion, as it has. My comment stands. For all you know, I could be dying of cancer. The assumption that I am young and have never suffered shows how completely the stereotype of "having/suffering from cancer" has completely permeated our culture. It appears in our culture that one is not allowed to express an experience differing from our "sacred cows" of disease; perhaps this is why the comment is so is difficult for some folk to receive.You all have my thanks for proving my point...that if one has a "disease" one disappears as an individual and becomes that disease and loses all sense of individuality. One must express oneself as those who have had the disease before them have. It is the LAW in our culture
that cancer is the worst thing that can happen to you, but ask a mom who has lost her child in a car accident if cancer is the worst thing, and she may tell you differently. And it is not my decision to tell her she is suffering any more or any less than a "cancer" person. My place is to be present with her not to judge or assume. Please be aware that each and every person you meet is an individual, not representative of your own personal stereotype and certainly not their particular disease. There's a soul in there worthy of your respect and understanding.
Take the time to look at your own reactions to the word cancer.
I appreciate very much and thank you all for taking the time. You help clarify for me the inability of our culture to consider another perspective.
Wench, bless you for your insights.
Carry on, fellow six-worders.
mudandenlightenment says,
PS: Wench, sorry about your gramma.L2L3 says,
If you were only trying to start a discussion you wouldn't have felt the need to make your first comment in the manner you chose to. Back-pedaling is rarely effective. Absolutely nothing you've said covers the reality that regardless of anything else, this post was insensitive. Your response in memoirs reveals your true attitude. But carry on, just don't expect a lot of buying in.Wench says,
I'm sorry, I think we may have misunderstood each other. I don't think anyone here believes that cancer replaces or consumes one's identity but does it force some special attention and personal reevaluation? Of course it does. You know what made seeing my grandmother get sick so difficult? She didn't want to acknowledge the big, fat elephant in the room. When I remember her, I don't remember cancer, I remember HER, but at the time, I think we all needed to be able to acknowledge that there was something terrible happening and we didn't know how to feel about it. And no one really got to. Perhaps the reason our society has such strong feelings about cancer is because of how often it KILLS people. In the individual days that pass with a disease, are there worse emotional struggles? My grandmother died in her sixties. My great-grandmother out-lived her by 5 years. If I had been old enough to ask, I am sure that to my great-grandmother, there was nothing as cruel as losing a child (two, actually) before she died at 92. Of course people think cancer consumes a person and takes over who they are. You don't lose your soul, clearly, but you can lose hair, energy, weight (or gain it), and eventually spend most of your time just getting through each day. That's what goes through someone's mind when they or someone they love is diagnosed. And although there are many things that cause pain and suffering, not all of which involve disease, I don't really understand how this memoir or its explanation benefits or uplifts anyone.MrsPremise says,
Well said L2 and Wench. You are speaking for many people here. Thankyou.TheAngstyPoet says,
I don't think anyone's physical illness can be trivialized.Mud I sort of understand your experiment to reveal that certain words can makes us group individuals together. But your experiment lacked ethos. The Dalai Lama once said, "Yearn to understand before yearning to be understood." I could rattle off plenty of cancer stories. My own MomMom (grandmother,) my hairdresser's thirteen year old daughter, or my friend's husband. Everyone has their own tragedy whether it be cancer, car accident, or what have you. Point is your memoir came off insensitive and a backstory could have avoided this confusion.
This should be obvious when you type on the internet but the interpretation of the context is left up to the reader. Next time when you try a sixing experiment please be more considerate of the readers.
ba_miracle says,
Mudandenlightenment,I didn't find the six words to be anything other than an opinion and took no offense until you wrote "Deal with it".
If you wanted a discussion, L2L3's 1st response gave you an excellent opportunity to open a respectful dialogue.
Believe says,
My response was defensive. I will allow you that, but after reading your explanation, I still find this memoir to be offensive. And frankly, the explanation as well.I have never had cancer. I do however have a pieced together diagnosis of an immune disorder. I spent some time in Cleveland, Ohio at the Cleveland Clinic, where I got disappointing answers to many questions. It was there that I was assigned a number. I became that number. They did not need to know my name. I was asked my number. I was referenced by my number. And I struggled to keep my identity. And at times I lost that struggle. To that degree, I recognize what you were trying to accomplish. By the time I left Cleveland, I had received a plate full of bad news, and absolutely no good news. But I felt like I had accomplished something because, although I was diagnosed with a yet untreatable illness, I had answers. I could acknowledge and deal with what was in front of me. Once again, to thT regard I can recognize what you were trying to accomplish. I had a disease, but at least I had answers.
Where I believe the divide lies is the word choice. You went with the shock value, achieved it, and then came off as saying we were practically pawns in your game. The usage of the terminology "sacred cows"? Are you kidding? Hopefully you can come to know this site as a supportive group of creative individuals. Like any group, we have our share of internal conflict, but we generally protect our own. And some of our own have cancer. And it is shaking the foundation of their world. And we will do anything to ease her burdens.
L2L3 says,
Far too much legitimacy given to such a tangled web. Not a cleverly disguised web either. Luckily, most people here are both tolerant and forgiving. Even forgiving of untruths. Hopefully the pieced together "explanation" was a result of some level of guilt or regret, as perhaps one might expect, given the circumstances. But then again, humanity all too often has as much of an air of hopelessness as it does renewal and hopefulness.sisterpoet says,
How do you compare pain? I watched someone die of AIDS and I have seen someone saved from cancer. They were both pretty bad..either could have ended differntly. Very confusing sixer I must say.Dhani says,
What's worse than cancer are the uninformed & plainly ignorant comments about it. (Not referring to any particular comment above!)