What did the Founding Fathers mean?
Backstory
● they were all white men● they all had property
● when they said "we the people" they meant THEMSELVES
So, in the year 1791, what did these white men with property mean when they wrote this?
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
In the year 1791, what did these white men with property mean by "well regulated militia"?
What did these white men with property mean by "arms" in 1791?
● flintlock rifles
● flintlock pistols
If a crazy person wanted to commit mass murder with a flintlock rifle and a flintlock pistol in 1791, it could be done. But the victims would have had to be willing to stand and wait for the shooter to reload and reload and reload. The mass murderer of 1791 would have fared far better by using a cannon.
So, I ask: How would the Founding Fathers have reacted in 1791, if a mad man had used a cannon to kill a school full of young children? THEIR young children.
Politicizing the right to own guns? Hell, the Founding Fathers did it first.
by Staraj in Six Words Questions on Dec 16, 2012 | 
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Comments
Dhani says,
(GREAT backstory -the kind, unfortunately, that doesn't seem to get 'featured' on this board, but it should, and thanX!)A NEW interpretation of the 2nd Amendment? Yes! Even Thomas JEFFERSON alluded to it with this observation:
'We might as well require a man to wear STILL the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.'
accidentaltourist says,
Modern Americans have a hard time understanding the context in which the Constitution was written, and the point of view of the Founding Fathers.Staraj says,
Not true of the majority of the six-slingers here, but I fear many modern Americans can't even understand CONTEXT.accidentaltourist says,
Agreed. Isn't "context" a message you get from from your prison boyfriend on your govt. issued smart phone?Staraj says,
How did you know I have a prison boyfriend?(nice pun, BTW)
Staraj says,
Thanks for the quote, Dhani. I had no prior familiarity with it, so I went to Google. The complete quote is the epitome of Jefferson's sagacity, and is even more apropos to this discussion:"I am certainly not an advocate for for frequent and untried changes in laws and constitutions. I think moderate imperfections had better be borne with; because, when once known, we accommodate ourselves to them, and find practical means of correcting their ill effects. But I know also, that laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths disclosed, and manners and opinions change with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also, and keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy, as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."
canadafreeze says,
Terrific backstory.Dhani says,
Wow, STAR, you really did do your homework! I had gleaned that quote from Marianne Williamson's 'HEALING THE SOUL OF AMERICA'. I tweeted it to BRAD THOR & will be receiving a lot of flak from his disciples.Redx3 says,
Jefferson also said that "Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.". Remember that a standing militia was to protect people from spurious government. Dhani, do feel as though your rights are assured? Have you all been reading current legislation closely enough to feel as though your government is serving your best interests? Facebook is not the face of an active citizenry. Informed republics do not focus on Kim Kardashian. The American public is too far removed from its legislature to hold it responsible. "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance." How many Americans can you say are truly vigilant? Our elected officials do not even read the laws they pass. Be wary of the freedoms you squander. Your right to a speedy trial has already been eradicated in the name of national security. NDAA ACt of 2012 just passed allowing indefinite detention of US citizens on American soil. If you have doubts, I encourage all of you to read all of the legislation that affects you, both local and national. I don't attempt to argue that massive armament is the answer, but white and privileged or not, Jefferson and his peers knew something about being a colonized space, and that flintlock gave them a chance for freedom. The same chance was late in coming for other colonized spaces like South America, India, the East Indies, and Africa. Did they not care about being colonized or were they just low on arms?Staraj says,
The purpose of government is to maintain a check on chaos. This is true for both democracies and dictatorships. Anarchy is the enemy of both. If the majorities of the citizens in either system become disenchanted to a sufficient degree with the status quo, insurrection will mount to effect change to create a new status quo.The majority rules – even in absentia. In the latter case, such condition, by default, cedes power to a minority. Thus in a dictatorship, the people allow the few to be the government. In a representative democracy, the people ARE the government – theoretically given voice by a few, who are not some mysterious, nefarious, conspiring "they". We are they. They are we. Eternal vigilance means we must keep our eyes on each other – eternally.
Inasmuch as ALL laws are ultimately enforced at the point of a gun, standing armies and non-standing militias are proxies for the freedom-hating few and also for the freedom-loving majorities. The populations of both are hypothetically continually pointing guns at each other for the sake of relative stability.
This is the world we have created. We cannot now live without guns. We know this. So, we try to live as best we can with them. Reluctantly accepting that some of us are destined to die at their points. With appropriate sadness at inappropriate times, the rest of us go on with our lives. And yet . . . some of us ponder these points about those points.